CHEYENNE—Sen. Dave Kinskey showed no interest Tuesday in letting the traditions of the Wyoming Senate stand in the way of civilians who want to carry firearms into public schools.
A bill that stripped state and local governments’ authority to create gun-free zones in places like schools, college dormitories, the Wyoming Capitol and county commission meetings had died the night before, voted down 3-2 by the Senate Judiciary Committee.
But on Tuesday morning, Kinskey (R-Sheridan) and other far-right members of the Senate were undeterred and willing to overrule that committee, Senate President Ogden Driskill (R-Devils Tower) and the chamber’s rules committee to bring legal concealed carry to nearly every public space in the state. Their tactics disregarded long-established norms in the Wyoming Legislature, and, to Driskill, they amounted to “idiocy” and were “sad.”
Kinskey, a Harvard-educated attorney, told the rancher from Devil’s Tower not to take it as a slight.
“It’s nothing personal, it’s about a bill that is critical to the protection of our Second Amendment rights,” he said on the Senate floor. “It needs to come out to this floor and it needs to come out to this floor today.”
In a series of roll call votes Tuesday, a majority of the Wyoming Senate overruled their body’s rules committee, the Senate president and the Senate Judiciary Committee, each by a one-vote margin.
With that, House Bill 125 – Repeal gun free zones and preemption amendments was resuscitated. Shortly thereafter, the Senate passed the bill easily, the first of three votes on the matter.
It’s legislation with potential to change the lives of Wyoming residents: If HB 125 clears the Senate unchanged and becomes law, K-12 administrators won’t have the right to know who in their school has a hidden handgun. (The legislation does not allow students to carry guns into schools.) Gun-toting lawmakers prone to making personal attacks could soon be commonplace in the State Capitol. County commissioners and town councilors, meanwhile, could soon have to make tough calls in tense meetings not knowing if those in attendance are armed.
Sens. Bo Biteman (R-Ranchester), Brian Boner (R-Douglas), Anthony Bouchard (R-Casper), Evie Brennan (R-Cheyenne), Dan Dockstader (R-Afton), Tim French (R-Powell), Larry Hicks (R-Baggs), Bob Ide (R-Casper), Stacy Jones (R-Rock Springs), Kinskey, John Kolb (R-Rock Springs), Dan Laursen (R-Powell), Troy McKeown (R-Gillette), Tim Salazar (R-Riverton), Charles Scott (R-Casper) and Cheri Steinmetz (R-Lingle) voted in favor of retrieving the dead bill so it could be considered again on the Senate floor.
For and against
Late the night before, following a dramatic dispute over budget negotiations, the Senate Judiciary Committee heard impassioned testimony from gun lobbyists backing the legislation, and teachers and parents concerned about lawmakers inviting a deluge of firearms into what are intended to be safe spaces. Committee members Sens. Cale Case (R-Lander), Ed Cooper (R-Ten Sleep), Bill Landen (R-Casper), Wendy Schuler (R-Evanston) and Dan Furphy (R-Laramie) listened and deliberated for nearly 2.5 hours.
Lobbyists like Wyoming Gun Owners’ Aaron Dorr sought to make the case that HB 125 was a matter of public safety.
“Our members are sick and tired of seeing dangerous criminals walk into gun free zones and murder innocent people who can’t fight back,” said Dorr, whose members have been accused of bullying and intimidating members of the Legislature. “Wyoming doesn’t have many gun-free zones. But these areas — schools, the Capitol — are a real problem that this bill was designed to address.”
Bouchard, a septic tank service provider by trade who called himself a “gun rights expert” in committee, spoke supportively of HB 125.
“If you look around this building, what stops people from coming in here?” he said. “Bad guys can come in here if they wanted to.”
Another gun lobbyist, the National Shooting Sports Foundation’s Nephi Cole, pointed out that Wyoming wouldn’t be the first state to usher firearms into public places like state capitols.
“I’d like you to know there are 21 states where concealed carry in the capitol is legal right now,” Cole said. “There are 11 states that allow unlimited concealed carry on campus.”
There have been “zero” incidents in any of those states as a result of those policies, he said.
But Andy Pelosi, with the New York-based Campaign to Keep Guns off Campus, told the same committee members Cole was misrepresenting the data.
“Unfortunately, that’s untrue,” Pelosi said via Zoom. Ahead of the meeting he emailed committee members a list of incidents involving guns on campuses where firearms are allowed. “Thirty-five incidents,” he said, “and that is really only scratching the surface.”
Lobbyists representing schools and municipalities also pushed back on the Legislature’s attempt to eliminate local control over gun regulations.
Tate Mullen, with the Wyoming Education Association, agreed that Wyoming has a “strong history” of Second Amendment advocacy.
“However … it also has a well-documented history of balancing Second Amendment rights and our citizens’ safety and security,” Mullen said. “In fact, the majority of our state’s earliest towns and communities had ordinances specifically prohibiting carrying a firearm, either openly or concealed within town limits.”
A lobbyist for the Wyoming Association of Municipalities, Justin Schilling, detailed that history. Cheyenne, he said, outlawed the open or concealed carrying of guns in town in 1867. Casper, Lusk and Worland all followed with similar regulations over the next four decades.
“The irony is that the popular sentiment in Wyoming during the literal Wild West stands in polar opposition to the year 2024,” Schilling said, “surpassed only by the thought that Wyoming cities and towns that literally started making local decisions on firearms regulations 157 years ago somehow suddenly can’t be trusted with the responsibility.”
… Wyoming cities and towns that literally started making local decisions on firearms regulations 157 years ago somehow suddenly can’t be trusted with the responsibility.”
Justin Schilling
After listening to the testimony, Sen. Cale Case (R-Lander) told the committee he’d need to overhaul the legislation in order to get on board. Substantial amendments to HB 125 struggled to gain traction in the House, where the gun bill introduced by Rep. Jeremy Haroldson (R-Wheatland) sailed through. But in the Judiciary Committee, Case promptly made big changes: An amendment restored school districts’ authority to create firearm regulations that everybody — not just staff — would have to abide by. He also expanded language that allows local governments to prohibit the open carrying of firearms.
Soon after, the changes were moot.
Voted down
As a roll call vote to advance HB 125 out of the Judiciary Committee progressed, senators were split 2-2. Landen, the chairman, was the deciding vote. He waited eight seconds, then uttered “no.”
Earlier in the night, the retired Casper College instructor told his fellow Senate Judiciary Committee members how he’d been present during a murder-suicide on his campus a dozen years ago. Having a gun, he said, wouldn’t have made a difference — the bloodshed happened too fast.
“Nobody … who advocates for these bills ever sat down and talked to me about that day to find out what happened and what my observations were,” Landen said. “I just find that interesting.”
Observers believed the committee’s 3-2 vote had ended the 2024 iteration of a many-times-tried bill.
Its death, however, lasted just half a day.
After being revived, the entire Senate heard Case’s attempt to amend HB 125 — for the second time.
“This is a cultural divide. There are people terrified about this,” Case said Tuesday evening. “We’re doing a disservice to people in Wyoming. Just because we can jam this through without the amendment doesn’t mean that we should.”
Sen. Chris Rothfuss (D-Laramie) argued HB 125 stripped Wyoming parents of a right to ensure their children’s safety.
“Do … constituents not have a right to protect their children by ensuring that nobody that is unqualified to use a weapon, untrained to use a weapon can be in their [children’s] vicinity while they’re in school?” Rothfuss said. “This legislation says, ‘no, I don’t have that right.’”
The appeals failed to move the measure’s supporters.
Far-right members of the Senate fought off attempts to alter the bill. At Kinskey’s urging, Boner, a HB 125 cosponsor, even withdrew an amendment to make “technical corrections.”
“I’m very concerned that any amendment in the conference committee effectively kills this bill,” Kinskey said. “I would ask that you resist any amendment.”
Senators fell in line with that request, then advanced the legislation with a voice vote.
House Bill 125 will require two more readings in the Wyoming Senate. If it passes both, it will then head to Gov. Mark Gordon.
Seven years ago, a similar guns-in-meetings bill died on the governor’s desk. Then-Gov. Matt Mead called that bill “murky” and vetoed it, blocking legislation that allowed concealed weapons in town and county, but not state legislative meetings, according to the Associated Press.
If they stick to the schedule and don’t convene for extra days, lawmakers won’t have time to override any potential Gordon vetoes.
The legislature is putting the lives of our school children and staff at more risk by repealing “Gun Free Zones. Hypothesis Test: Would these members of the legislature who voted for repealing the “Gun Free Zones” at our schools, etc. be willing to line up, side by side (shoulder to shoulder) with a target the size of a paper plate placed between all of their heads. We’ll randomly call in 10 certified concealed carry individuals off the street and ask them to shoot at the targets. There should be little difficulty getting legislative volunteers! The shooters get five rounds to fire, the shooter who hits the most targets is the winner. These legislators want to change the system for another one that they’re not confident in themselves. Communities deserve to be protected by the methods that work the best and are realistic. Programed AI surveillance cameras outside the buildings with frequent patrolling by police officers is by far the best system, officers stationed at the school is even better! I would think a few speeding violators going unchecked while our school children and staff are safe is a more than reasonable trade off. Legislators, don’t apply some out in the country style school-house scenario protection method to citizens who live in a more urban/suburban location. We do have trained skilled officers, police, sheriff and highway patrol, that we depend on and prefer to provide us protection. There was mentioned a clause or amendment that the “Gun Free Zone” would still be applicable in court houses. Really, are judges, jurors, lawyers, etc. more deserving of protection than our precious school children and the staff members that are providing an education that formulates their lives! Keep the “Gun Free Zone” laws intact.
My apologies from Sheridan County. I thought Kinskey was one of the adults in the room, clearly I was mistaken. How much bleach is he going to need to clean his hands when this goes south?
The failure of these legislators to comprehend the purpose and importance of the “Gun Free Zones” is appalling. There are appropriate locations for gun-carry, schools, public offices including court rooms, etc. are not such places. The same reason a judge won’t allow firearms in the courtroom, is the same reason they were banned at the forementioned locations (Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990, President Bush, [Republican] signed it into law). The current system is working just fine, so why change it? I suppose James Madison should have listed more locations where bearing firearms was legally acceptable, instead of stating ” A well regulated Militia being necessary to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” He assumed mistakenly that readers would understand his intent (e.g., Wyoming 2024 Legislature), which was to bear arms to rise up and fight against tyranny (oppressive power) exerted by a government, in our case, Great Britain against its thirteen colonies, resulting in the American Revolutionary War. He assumed people would have enough common sense to know the appropriate times to carry a firearm, I’m certain he wouldn’t want firearms in school houses, churches or courtrooms. There are mentally disturbed/unstable/violent individuals in our society today, that will commit heinous crimes resulting in loss of lives. Innocent children and adults will perish in minutes if these individuals were allowed to enter the building, and the Wyoming Legislature is giving them a hall-pass, really! This isn’t about defending the right to bear arms, its about protecting our loved ones! You would think the legislature would have some common sense, or should we blame all this on Mr. Madison for not stating more examples where the need to bear arms was legally acceptable. No, I can’t blame Mr. Madison at all, a third grader would know this. I suggest installing AI security cameras that are capable of detecting firearms, suspicious individuals, gear and behavior, then instantaneously sending warning alerts to designated locations. I prefer this method rather than gun toting pokes that aren’t trained in firearm use!
There are legitimate issues in our state that are pressing, e.g., an under staffed State Penitentiary, Wyoming sent 240 inmates to the Mississippi State Penitentiary to be housed. At a cost of $5,168,400 to Wyoming taxpayers per year (Magnolia Tribune, source). The Second Amendment is not one of them. As Federal Judge Clarence Addison Brimmer Jr. would say, “This is a bunch of gobbledygook.”
I believe in sensible gun restrictions. However I fail to see how this fits in a budget session, and I think this whole conversation is mostly ego-driven. Embarrassing, as has been the entire session. Our own Senator for our District, Dan Laursen, appears to have no mind of his own.
I really do not want to live in a society where everyone thinks they need to be armed and historically we have had this kind of thinking. So what happened? We have far less violent crime today than we did during the 1960s-1990s but seemingly this group of angry old white people can not be convinced of those facts. Why is that? Fox News? Social Media? Certainly both of those play a role but our progressive leadership fails to correct record when these lies get repeated over and over.
There was a recent rise in murders but that can be tied to the pandemic when 8 million new guns were purchased and then were promptly used to slay family members as domestic violence skyrocketed when loving relatives were forced to live together.
The Freedom Caucus wants society to fracture and is passing any punitive law it can dream up to continue down the path of fascism. I have read the laws and I will be able to legally conceal my un-registered Glock into any public space in Wyoming with the exception of the University of Wyoming because thankfully they sell BOOZE.
Law abiding citizens over 21 years of age do not need a permit to conceal-carry in Wyoming. I really do not want to carry a Glock when I come to Cheyenne to testify but if the Freedom Caucus insists on this fashion accessory, I will gladly comply.
Unfortunately under this bill the only places at UW that will you will not be allowed to carry a gun is at athletic events that sell alcohol. Every where else on campus anyone with concealed permit will be able to carry a gun. Dining hall, dorms, student center , disciplinary meetings- this bill allows no entity but the legislature to make firearm regulations. The tactics used by the gun lobby in the legislature were reprehensible and made a mockery of our democracy, they consistently misrepresented statistics and the constitution and when they lost after extensive testimony against the bill they changed the rules and jammed it through the Senate. The requirements to obtain a concealed carry permit in the state are an embarrassment- a 90 minute online course will earn you a permit – you never even have to have ever fired a gun – this is what the Freedom Caucus are calling “trained” responsible gun owners. Responsible gun owners are not calling for guns everywhere all the time – they are calling for reasonable safety measures in a society that is awash with gun and in a state that has some of the highest homicide and suicide (by guns) in the nation.
The University of Wyoming sells alcohol almost everyday in the Pokes Pub and if I was running UW I would put beer vending machines in each building which would prevent guns from being brought to campus.
Actually you need not take a course at all to conceal carry. There is no course requirement. I invite you to read the law as it very interesting when it comes to CCW.
“; or
(iv) The person does not possess a permit issued under this section, but is a resident of the United States and otherwise meets the requirements specified in paragraphs (b)(ii) through (vi), (viii) and (ix) of this section and possession of the firearm by the person is not otherwise unlawful.”
https://law.justia.com/codes/wyoming/2022/title-6/chapter-8/article-1/section-6-8-104/
The part that is critical to understand about this legislation is that this does not legalize nor encourage crime of any sort. This does not encourage mass shootings, nor violence of any kind. If a criminal intends to commit a criminal act with a firearm, they are inevitably going to do it anyway. What this bill does, quite rightly, is allow good people to shoot back without risking arrest, encouraging them to protect themselves and others.
Did you even read the article? This isn’t a gun grab. This is about public safety. If more good guys with guns made us safer, we’d be the safest country in the world now. Guns in public schools and other public places where they are currently banned is and always has been a horrible idea. A proliferation of guns doesn’t make anyone safer. This is a horrible idea being pushed by the far-right reps in the legislature. Wyoming deserves better.
Maybe you would feel safer somewhere else.
The maga brand is alive and well in the great state of Wyoming. Thankful that the state has only three national electoral votes. It’s petty little, irrational arguments, …e.g. ‘more guns make us safer’, etc. need to be contained at the Wyoming border. Thanks for the article as a reminder of how pathetic the line of discourse is in the legislature
“Bouchard, a septic tank service provider by trade who called himself a “gun rights expert” in committee, spoke supportively of HB 125.”
Does Bouchard pay septic dumping fees everytime he speaks?
Great article Mike, very detailed except for one VERY important item. We the voters want to know who specifically voted yes and no. How did EACH legislator vote. It is time our representatives represent us and we have a right to know that their vote represents the common voice of the people who vote for them.
BTW, Rather than gun laws, why not pass a law that covers other violent acts? Wouldn’t a more encompassing law, like one against murder be more encompassing and effective?
Why do these “gun-grabbers” think another law banning guns will stop a bad person from killing. There is already a law against killing another person, does the bad guy obey it? The “gun-grabbing” legislation only penalizes the honest person, the bad does care whether he breaks laws or not.
I’m so tired of the argument that we have to be ready for bad guys with guns by having more good guys with guns. The agreement is ridiculous. The odds are still very low that a gunman will go into a school, even though we have way too many school shootings in America) when you consider how many schools we have. However, when you have people with guns in the school potentially everyday, the odds go up that there will be incidents with the good guys with guns. This could be an accident with a gun (because I don’t trust that any gun owner is a “responsible” gun owner), a good guy with a gun making a mistake in the rare case they need to use it, or heaven forbid, a college student using it during a domestic incident or for suicide (because college students don’t always make the best choices, are at an age when many mental illnesses come to the surface, and are under a lot of stress and don’t have fully formed brains to manage the stress). More guns more places isn’t the answer to any of America’s issues with gun violence, if it was, this would be safest country in the world. It’s so hypocritical that this legislature that want’s more guns more places, wants to stop abortions, also doesn’t want to fund the suicide hotline and wants to cut funds for mental health treatment.
Amen. You are spot on about the preposterous hypocrisy in this legislature. I am, to put it mildly, appalled.
The ammosexuals obviously control the Wyoming Legislature.
The “New” Wyoming Republican party and its various cliques have lost all sense of the concept of local control. Remember the party that advocated for less government interference at the local level? It is the party that advocated for people to make their own medical decisions, going so far as to enshrine that right in the State Constitution. It is also the party that hates the Feds and the welfare state yet cannot support themselves without Federal assistance. They can’t bring a budget butt they can sure waste time on other things.
Nice article Mike. We have no budget, but can spend hours discussing who is the most “gun rights expert.”
The gun lobby with the help of the far right extremists in the Senate have given new life to legislation that should have died in committee. Responsible gun owners are not those who I worry about. But they are not the only ones who go into public spaces armed and dangerous.
Wyoming needs to enlarge the state hospital. These Republican so called lawmakers have lost their minds. If this is their idea of protecting the second amendment one needs to ask how much money they are getting from the gun lobby.
At what point are people going to realize criminals DON’T ABIDE BY THE LAW?!!? Gun-free zones will not stop a criminal. “County commissioners and town councilors, meanwhile, could soon have to make tough calls in tense meetings not knowing if those in attendance are armed.” – how do you know they aren’t NOW? What’s going to stop someone from walking out to their car, retrieving a gun, and using it? NOTHING. In Indiana, had a young man not been legally carrying, more people would have been shot and killed in a mall shooting. He stopped the shooter.
Someone wanting to make a name for himself as a mass shooter doesn’t go to a sporting goods store, he goes to a “GUN FREE ZONE”
Gun free zones may not stop criminals but they certainly prevent gun accidents. Out children have the right to be free from this fear.